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EXTRACTS FROM HANSARD
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PROCEEDINGS OF CANADA'S SENATE

The following extracts have been taken from Hansard Records
of Canada's Senate for the 38th Parliament of Canada:

Debates of the Senate (Hansard)
1st Session, 38th Parliament,
Volume 142, Issue 45
Monday, March 21, 2005
The Honourable Dan Hays, Speaker

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Orders of the Day

Statistics Act

Bill to Amend—Third Reading—Motion in Amendment—Debate Continued

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool, for the third reading of Bill S-18, to amend the Statistics Act;

And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Comeau, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cochrane, that Bill S-18 be not now read a third time but that it be amended in clause 1, on page 1, by replacing line 8, with the following:

"between 1910 and 1918 is no longer subject to".

Hon. Lorna Milne: Honourable senators, I wish to take a very brief moment to say a few words about Bill S-18 and the amendment that was proposed by Senator Comeau. I apologize for the fact that I was not in the chamber when third reading debate began, but I was in Alberta with the Energy Committee at the time.

Honourable senators have heard from me on this subject on previous occasions. This is an issue that is dear to me and I will not go into great length again as to why.

My firm belief is that the historic census records are a vital part of Canada's history. They are the only record of all Canadians in their family groups. As such, they are critical to historians.

The amendment of Senator Comeau would prevent the government from releasing records for every census taken between 1918 and 2005. He is of the opinion that a promise was given to Canadians that their census information would be kept private for all time. This specific issue has been thoroughly studied. The government is confident that this bill does not breach any promise given to Canadians.

The government appointed former Supreme Court Justice Gérard La Forest, a noted privacy advocate to lead an expert panel that studied this issue. The panel found that no promise of the kind that Senator Comeau referred to had ever been made. The Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology has also studied opinions from the Department of Justice that confirmed this view.

Finally, regulations have the force of law and the regulations governing the censuses have repeatedly stated that individual census returns would become part of the public record. The regulations specifically state that the records would be "stored in the archives of the Dominion." Canadians well know that all material that is stored in our archives eventually becomes public, even cabinet documents.

Honourable senators, given the importance of these documents to the historical and genealogical community, and given the report of the expert panel on this issue, I urge you to defeat the amendment and to pass the bill.

Hon. John Lynch-Staunton: Would the honourable senator allow a question or two?

Senator Milne: Certainly.

Senator Lynch-Staunton: Honourable senators, there is only one aspect of this bill that I find attractive and that I will support as long as the answers to my questions are reassuring, what is known as the opt-in clause; that is, on future census forms, there will be a section, sentence or part of a form to the effect that if the individual filling out the form wants the information to be made public after a certain period of time, the individual must so indicate. If there is no indication, then that information remains secret forever.

Will that request be formulated and how will that be done? Will it be straightforward: "I agree that this information can be made public after 92 years," or will there be editorial comment as to the advantages or disadvantages of having that information released?

Senator Milne: I must tell the honourable senator that I do not have anything to do with drawing up the census form, so I am not sure what the final form will be. I have been told that there will be a box that can be ticked. If an individual does not fill in the box, the census information will never be released. If the individual fills in "no", the census information will never be released.

I am trying to remember what the census form looks like. I do not think there is too much by way of explanatory note. As this is a new question for our Canadian census forms, Dr. Ivan Fellegi intends to try to do a certain amount of public information in advance, but I do not think that information will be on the form. That is the best answer I can you.

Senator Lynch-Staunton: Unlike negative billing, you will have to indicate. If you do not indicate, then nothing happens.

I am referring to the last bulletin of the Canadian Historical Association, volume 31.1.2005, in which a press release dated November 2, 2004 says that

Statistics Canada, in conjunction with Library and Archives Canada will, as part of the 2006 census public communications campaign, encourage Canadians to allow future access to their census records to preserve Canada's history for future generations.

I am sorry I could not attend the committee meeting, but some of us have problems being at several committees at the same time. I was sorry to see that this subject was not brought up during the committee meeting.

(1910)

I read here that the Government of Canada will encourage people to indicate a preference in favour of releasing the information. Those who are against that release will not have the same opportunity.

Certainly, it was not the intent of Parliament that, by voting for this bill, which is strictly a choice made by an individual, that choice can be influenced by Statistics Canada in conjunction with Library and Archives Canada as part of the census process to release the information.

I would like to ask Senator Milne, as a strong supporter of this bill, whether she agrees that this strategy is in line with the intent of the bill, which is to give an independent, uninfluenced choice to the individual who is filling out the form.

Senator Milne: It is my understanding that the campaign beforehand will be to educate Canadians as to what it means if they say no and what it means if they say yes, so they will have that choice.

Senator Lynch-Staunton: I intend to speak to this in due course. I will quote more fully from this press release, but the trouble is that it does not suggest that the government will explain the alternatives. It will:

...as part of the 2006 Census public communications campaign, encourage Canadians to allow future access to their census records to preserve Canada's history for future generations.

There is nothing saying that the disadvantage of doing that is that you may be releasing information asked for on the long form that you would rather not have released.

The government is saying in this press release of last November that it will do all it can to convince Canadians to have the information released, which I find highly irregular. I would like Senator Milne to look into this matter. I hope she would agree that this is not the way government should operate.

I am reminded of the Minister of Immigration who, when asked some time ago why the immigration appeal boards had not been created after the law had been amended allowing it, said that that was just an indication of Parliament, just a wish list to which he was not bound. There was no deadline; therefore, he might not do it.

I fear that we are repeating the same thing here by saying this bill provides that you have the choice but the government is telling us we will ensure the choice is to our liking. Does Senator Milne agree with that process?

Senator Milne: Since I have not seen the publication that Senator Lynch-Staunton is reading, and since it does not appear to be a government publication, I cannot tell what the government will do in the future from a third-hand account.

Senator Lynch-Staunton: The publication is the Canadian Historical Association Bulletin, which quotes a press release from Industry Canada on behalf of Statistics Canada. However, I will be glad to quote fully from that press release and from other documentation to try to convince senators we are going down the wrong path. In the meantime, I move adjournment of the debate.

Hon. Jack Austin (Leader of the Government): Might I inquire of Senator Lynch-Staunton when he intends to make his contribution?

Senator Lynch-Staunton: As soon as I can, honourable senators.

On motion of Senator Lynch-Staunton, debate adjourned.